TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
MACON-BIBB COUNTY SALES TAX ROAD PROGRAM
MARCH 7, 2002
4:11 P.M.

COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:

BOB FOUNTAIN
BILL CAUSEY
GLENN DURRENCE
DON TUSSING
BILL VAUGHN
BILL WIKLE

OTHERS PRESENT:

CLEVE CUNNINGHAM
ISABEL DAVIS
REX ELDER
MELVIN EWING
JULIE GROCE 
SUSAN HANBERRY
LINDSAY HOLLIDAY
ANTHONY LEWIS
SUSAN MIDDLETON
CAM OETTER
JOE PATTERSON, JR.
MICHAEL RYAN
TERRIE SALTER
SHERRIE SAWYER
KEN SHEETS
ALAN THIESE

REPORTED BY: PATRICIA C. USSERY, CCR B-1238

CLAUDE JOINER REPORTING SERVICE, INC.
410 AMERICAN FEDERAL BUILDING 
P. O. BOX 94
MACON, GEORGIA 31202-0094
TELEPHONE: 478/742-6611 or 746-7804

MR. FOUNTAIN: Can we call our meeting to order for March the 7th, guys and ladies. Thank you all for coming. We have our minutes of our previous meeting of February the 7th before us. Are there any corrections, additions or deletions to our minutes? 

MR. CAUSEY: Move we approve.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Do I have a second?

MR. VAUGHN: Second.

MR. FOUNTAIN: I have a second by Bill. Discussion? (No response). All in favor, say, “aye”.

UNISON: “Aye”. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: Opposed? (No response). So carried. Don, are you representing Vernon today?

MR. TUSSING: Yes, sir.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Let the record reflect that Don Tussing is here today. 
MR. WIKLE: Is he still sick?

MR. TUSSING: No. He’s trying to finish up the budget.

MR. FOUNTAIN: You’re here representing?

MR. ROUNTREE: Glenn Durrence.

MR. FOUNTAIN: And your name is?

MR. ROUNTREE: Bill Rountree.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Bill Rountree, okay. Thank you, Bill, for coming. 

MR. ROUNTREE: Thank you.

MR. FOUNTAIN: All right, we’ll move into Item 3, our Community Comments. Would anybody like to address our group today? We’ve got another, there will be another opportunity under Item 8, so if not, we’ll move into Item 4 on our agenda, which is the Redding School sidewalks. Melvin Ewing.

MR. EWING: How are you all doing today?

MR. FOUNTAIN: Okay, Melvin.

MR. VAUGHN: Fine.

MR. EWING: We’re back once again to talk about the Redding School in Lizella, Georgia. Last time was had basically presented a concept that we would add curb and gutter from South Lizella Road all the way to Redding Way. However, from a cost situation we wanted to look at other ways where we could move the sidewalk back away from the curb where possible in order to eliminate some of the costs for drainage structures. 

So, basically what we have, again, I think everybody has the concept report before them, and I think that at the last page of the concept report you can see the final cost. That’s what I’ll be referring to. 

Basically, the last time, as I said, the sidewalk is going to be adjacent to curb that we had shown going from Redding Way to South Lizella and the sidewalk is going to be directly adjacent to that. What we’ve done in this situation is put the proposed sidewalk back behind the ditch, and the ditch is represented by this heavier line there, where we could, and also move the sidewalk as far back from the curb while trying to avoid power poles. So in this portion here there will be a grass strip in there.

Just to recap, we have two travel lanes on Eisenhower Parkway, 12-foot lanes each, and then there is a 6-foot paved shoulder. And then the rest of it is the grass onto private property, so we propose in this situation to acquire some right-of-way and construction easement; whereas, we let the sidewalk jog onto the school property, and this parcel here is the Redding Elementary School. And this is representative of a permanent easement. There is the lodge there and there’s private residences here. And by doing this, this will enable us to put the sidewalk in the ground at grade and work it out such that the drainage will either flow over the curb or back over to the property.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Do you have a typical section on this thing, Melvin?

MR. EWING: Not shown here today. 
MR. CAUSEY: How far are you from the edge of roadway to the first part --

MR. EWING: Over here?

MR. CAUSEY: Uh-huh (affirmatively).

MR. EWING: Okay. Actually, this line at the very, the very outmost line is the edge of pavement where the curb and gutter is.

MR. CAUSEY: There’s curb and gutter up there?

MR. EWING: There’s curb and gutter from here to this point here. 

MR. LEWIS: Not existing.

MR. EWING: Not existing, no. This is proposed.

MR. CAUSEY: So how many feet are you from the edge of the travel lane?

MR. EWING: Well, we’re, from the edge of the travel lane, we’re about 6 to 7 feet. On average 6 feet.

MR. FOUNTAIN: What’s the width of your grass strip?

MR. EWING: Two feet.

MR. CAUSEY: Is that as far as you can get it?

MR. EWING: The ditch -- Well, what happens is is that from this stretch here you’ve got power poles through there all the way I guess at the back of the right-of-way. And, so, what I’m doing is running the sidewalk in between the power poles and the paved strip.

MR. CAUSEY: Are the power poles on the right-of-way?

MR. EWING: The power poles are on the right-of-way.

MR. CAUSEY: Is that the edge, the limit of the right-of-way?

MR. EWING: It’s on the back of the right-of-way.

MR. CAUSEY: So to go behind those poles, right-of-way would have to be acquired?

MR. EWING: That’s correct. Or, well, I would think you would not necessarily acquire it but maybe get a permanent easement there for the sidewalk. But those power poles are strung all the way through there. There’s probably about 11. As you get up here, the power poles are back farther. One thing I’d just like to say, this is roughly 140 feet right-of-way for Eisenhower, but it varies throughout, different widths throughout.

But this is what we came up with, and hopefully, as I said, what we tried to do is stay behind the ditch where we could. And, again, that was relatively easy to do here, but when we got here to these private residences, the church, there’s a Baptist Church here that had purchased these parcels right here. They’ve got parking and a paved area out here. 

MR. CAUSEY: Does your project, as it’s drawn there, require right-of-way to be purchased?

MR. EWING: Well, right through here I had put 5-foot of right-of-way to be purchased. 

MR. CAUSEY: To be acquired?

MR. EWING: To be acquired, yes. Just so we’d have room.

MR. CAUSEY: I was thinking we were talking about moving it farther than that, but if that’s okay with you now.

MR. ETHERIDGE: Well, you’ve got homes and other things up there --

MR. FOUNTAIN: What’s the School Board doing with this school?

MR. ETHERIDGE: Well --

MR. FOUNTAIN: Susan? I think I saw Susan.

MS. MIDDLETON: Yeah. Well --

MR. FOUNTAIN: Susan Middleton is representing the School Board.

MS. MIDDLETON: I represent this district in West Bibb County. And if you pick up The Telegraph you know we’re in the midst of a big rezoning, redistricting, and presently that school is listed as one that will not be, that will not be open. And there’s a lot of controversy surrounding it and the jury is still out on it. We haven’t voted yet. But I would certainly encourage you to talk to Lyn Hinesman (phonetically), our Assistant Superintendent for Facilities with the School Board, to kind of keep in touch with where that stands. That school, if it is, if we do keep a school there, it will need to be reconstructed. The building is 95 years old. So the way it’s configured, the way it looks now, should we rebuild at some point in the next, you know, five, six, seven years, it would not, in my opinion, look like it does now. But Mr. Hinesman is the one you need to talk to.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Susan, thank you. It may be, guys, that we may have, we ought to put this in somewhat of a holding pattern until more is revealed. More may be revealed as we move along. Van, I’d like to recommend to you guys that we kind of table this for a while.

MR. WIKLE: Do you need a motion to do that?

MR. FOUNTAIN: Just to table it for a while.

MR. WIKLE: I think we definitely need to do it. 
MR. FOUNTAIN: Yeah. Melvin, not that we don’t appreciate what you’ve done, but with what all is going on, it may be the right thing to do that we just table this issue for a while, and then we can look at it again. I think that would be the right thing to do. Maybe we can revisit it at a later date when we know more about what’s going to happen with the School Board. And, Susan, thank you for coming.

MS. MIDDLETON: Oh, you’re welcome.

MR. FOUNTAIN: We’re just going to table that until we can get a little bit more information on that. Melvin, thank you, though. Item 5, Steve, do you want to talk to us about our public meeting?

MR. DUVAL: Good afternoon everyone. And if I could call your attention to Tab 5 in your agenda package, and this is in regard to our public meeting that we had last Thursday night at Macon City Council Chambers regarding the Poplar Street project from First Street to Fifth Street.

And our facilitator for that particular meeting was Mr. Jordan Jelks of McLees and Boggs, and he made a real good presentation of the proposed project. There had been some changes made to that project from the last meeting that we had there. We had about 33 people in attendance, including the County Commission Chairman Olmstead and Mayor Ellis was there. We had two members of our Oversight Committee, Mr. White and Mr. Fischer, who were also in attendance. 

As you can see from this report, we didn’t get a lot of written responses. I encourage people to always leave us a written response, but as you can see we only got seven. And a summary of all the comments that were made are at the bottom of the report.

Someone said the proposed design didn’t fit with the historical buildings of Macon. They thought the turnarounds like those on Mulberry Street should be added to this project. Someone spoke about the metal roof on the proposed structure there, that they thought that should be a raised ribbed roof instead of just plain tin. I think it was like a tin roof. They thought the light should be vintage to scale with the streetscape. Someone also thought that moving the bus stops would hurt business along that area.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Well, that’s already over. The bus stops, that’s past tense, isn’t it? That decision has already been made.

MR. DUVAL: The decision has been made, right. But this is just some comments that --

MR. FOUNTAIN: Okay.

MR. DUVAL: -- were made. Someone also thought that bathrooms should be included in the plan. The market area, the proposed market area on that corridor, someone thought it should have specific rules regarding its use. And there was some concern about the timetable for the project. A commitment to maintain the new facilities by the City should be made. Existing parking should be increased. Someone wanted to know would renovations be made to the existing sidewalks. They didn’t want the alley closed. I think that was next to, is that Marshall Furniture Company? 

MR. ETHERIDGE: I think that’s right.

MR. DUVAL: They talked about that, they didn’t want that alley closed there. And someone also said that small tree wells shouldn’t be used. And that’s pretty much the meeting. 

I was disappointed that we didn’t have any of our media show up. We always encourage them to please come out and cover our meetings. We contact them in time to do that, but we didn’t have any media representatives at that particular meeting. 

And that’s basically it. I’ll entertain any questions about the meeting. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: Steve, thank you. I thought it was an excellent meeting. I was real disappointed that we didn’t have media coverage that day. It was an excellent public meeting. Great renderings. We had three great renderings that were done by the architect. 

Steve, I wish you would call Chris, if you would, and at least get him down to the office and let him see what we have because I think that ought to be disseminated to the general public. They ought to be able to see that. We shouldn’t do that in a vacuum. It’s too big of a project. 

MR. DUVAL: Okay.

MR. FOUNTAIN: So if you would, I’d love to see that done. Just invite him down and sit with him, if you would.

MR. DUVAL: I sure will.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Because it was a real disappointment not to have him there. And the comments we got I thought were very small comments, and I think Jordan is going to address those himself. I think I’m just, you know, we ought to go with that guy. He’s the one that we hired. I know we were looking in Atlanta day before yesterday at some of the parks in downtown Atlanta, and there’s a variance there. You can get just about anything you want with this new urban design package. So I don’t see that we’re very far off with what we’re doing. 

Steve, thank you. Van, that was a very good public meeting. Thank you all.

MR. DUVAL: Thank you.

MR. FOUNTAIN: All right. Let’s see. Joe, we’re talking, moving to Item 6 on our agenda, Tucker Road, Cunningham letter dated February 13th, 2002. 

MR. JOHNSON: Yes, sir. If you could turn to Tab 6, you’ll have it. Please turn to Tab 6 and you’ll find a letter from our consultant on the Tucker Road project, Cunningham and Company, and Mr. Cleve Cunningham and Mr. Terrie Salter are here today representing Cunningham and Company. I just want to acknowledge them.

Back late last year, we had a public meeting to present a multi-use path for the neighborhood on Tucker Road, and I’d say we had overwhelming support for our concept idea of having this multi-use path. Subsequently, after that public meeting our Executive Committee approved funding for this multi-use path. Since that time, there’s been a few unofficial meetings with some neighborhood groups and institutions, like Wesleyan College. I believe the City has met with some members of Richmond Hill. And, also, I know that Mr. Nimrod Long from, I believe, somewhere in Alabama has been over here discussing the project with a few people.

And Cunningham and Company was concerned that the project was losing a little momentum now with all these new ideas coming up since their project has been approved. And we’re coming here today to ask for a little direction from our committee. 

Now, if you glance down their letter, they do have a price from Nimrod Long to help, or to actually design this path as part of the Tucker Road project. Now, Cunningham and Company has done a good bit of work on the multi-use path. They do have cross sections. They do have a layout of the path. But we’re just kind of stuck in position right here. We’re don’t really know what direction to go. We wanted to bring it to this meeting here to get some direction. 
I want to open it up for discussion and maybe we can get some input.

MR. FOUNTAIN: I think, in fact, isn’t Nimrod doing the Riverfront? Isn’t he doing that?

MR. CAUSEY: He designed the portion that we’re doing now, and then he will most likely get the contract to design the portion that goes from Gateway Park down river to Central City Park. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: Well, you know, I think we’ve engaged Cunningham and Company to be our design engineers. And what we’ve asked of Mr. Nimrod Long is to look at it as a courtesy. I mean he’s got experience in it. If he can help us as a facilitator, we’re not asking him to design the project, but if he can help us and give us overview on the project, that’s what we discussed with him, that’s fine. But we’re not employing Mr. Nimrod Long. We’ve asked him to help us. I mean he’s got experience. He’s built these paths before. He knows how they work. And that’s what we’re asking of him, to help our people design and construct this path. 

MR. CAUSEY: You spoke with him yesterday?

MR. FOUNTAIN: Yes. And he’s willing to do that through New Town Macon.

MR. CAUSEY: Okay.

MR. FOUNTAIN: And New Town Macon will pick that up. But be there to help us as a facilitator to share with us what has worked for him in other communities to help us be successful in building this path. And that’s all we’ve asked him to do.

MR. JOHNSON: And there’s one more issue on this about the width of the path. At the public meeting when we did throw out the width at about 8 feet. Since then we’ve discussed a narrower path or a wider path. Is there any feeling from this committee on the direction we need to direct our consultant on that.

MR. CAUSEY: I’d like to comment on that if I could. We struggled for a long time to name what we were even talking about, and the 10 feet really came from the DOT Green Book. There were some concerns at the public meeting about the excessive width, and Nimrod Long has looked at Tucker Road and already suggested that the width would be more appropriate at 6 feet wide, given that this is not a bike lane or a bikeway but really a community sidewalk is what it really is to tie the homes in the neighborhoods together. That represents less money and less footprint, less of us in the neighborhood. I would like, if we’re going to ask him to oversee it or help us with it, that’s what he’s going to suggest.

MR. FOUNTAIN: I don’t know that, I see this as a meandering path, and I don’t see it being a consistent width. I mean I’m sure that there are places that it’s going to be narrow, I mean, and some places, you know, that it will choke down in some places. And that’s what I think we need to ask him to overview is to work this out. We give them ranges to work with. That it would get no narrower than 6 foot and no wider than 10, and I think those are the parameters that you would want to work in, and that we not try to define for you whether it’s 6, 10, you know. That we give you that design flexibility and you go through the project, if that makes sense.

MR. JOHNSON: That’s a great idea, Mr. Chairman.

MR. FOUNTAIN: We don’t want to tie your hands with it. We want something that works. 

MR. JOHNSON: Do you have anymore questions, Cleve?

MR. CUNNINGHAM: No. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: Cleve, that --

AUDIENCE: There was a question about whether it was going to be asphalt, concrete --

MR. CAUSEY: Again, Nimrod’s recommendation was concrete. It’s a better product and it lasts longer and it looks better.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Absolutely concrete.

MR. TUSSING: Do you need a motion from the committee to put this --

MR. FOUNTAIN: Don, I guess we could entertain a motion that -- 
MR. TUSSING: You know, I mean --

MR. FOUNTAIN: Whatever the wishes of the committee are.

MR. VAUGHN: Let me clarify something. The $42,000, is New Town going to pay that.

MR. FOUNTAIN: We’re not going to ask him to do that, Bill.

MR. CAUSEY: That was his proposal to design --

MR. FOUNTAIN: We don’t want him to design it.

MR. VAUGHN: Oh, okay. 

MR. CAUSEY: I’m not sure how that’s going to work, what level of input he’ll have.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Well, he will review our drawings once they have come in for a review capacity. And as Moreland Altobelli is our program manager, he will sit with us and review capacity and help us with it. That’s what he’s agreed to do.

MR. TUSSING: In an advisory role.

MR. FOUNTAIN: As an advisory role, yes.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.

MR. FOUNTAIN: So we can save that money. Joe, thank you. Cleve, is that okay?

MR. CUNNINGHAM: Sure.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Okay. Item 7, it really kind of caught us off guard. It’s relocation of Avondale Mill Road/Sardis Church Road project. Don?

MR. TUSSING: Okay. Bob asked me to talk about this since the letter had been directed to me to forward this on. And I brought this, Van and I had discussed it, and then I talked with the Georgia Department of Transportation about the proposal to move the road slightly. The big concern is we did not want to delay the processing of the environmental documents because much of the environmental review has already taken place. But after Georgia DOT took a quick look at how much and what distances it was going to be moved, they did not feel it was going to be a major consideration that we would have to go through the review process again.

Now, I understand a letter is supposed to be coming from the City. Rex, you’re, let me ask Rex. Is the Mayor going to be forwarding that letter to the Road Program itself?

MR. ELDER: Yes. It’s on his desk right now awaiting his signature.

MR. TUSSING: Okay.

MR. ELDER: So you should see it within the next couple of days.

MR. FOUNTAIN: What’s the request, Don? I’m not even sure that I know what the request is.

MR. TUSSING: Okay. The existing roadways south and west of the airport’s primary runway encroaches upon the defined Runway Object Free Area; and, also, the Runway Safety Area. If the roadway is moved slightly, as is seen in the handout everyone should have, it moves it just enough to get out of that Runway Free Area. And then that way when any funding or any issues come up with the airport, the review process will be able to say, yes, it meets that requirement and you won’t have to go through and justify why it’s not each and every time you make an application. It makes it much easier for the City to go after additional funds when they meet all the criteria. This would meet the Runway Free Object criteria on that. So that’s about as much as I know about it. 

MR. ELDER: Don, another really important item there is that we’ve got a request for a grant now for $650,000 that touches that area in our clear zone. It’s terribly expensive trying to maintain those trees in that swamp out there and to keep them at the height. So if we could purchase, get a fee simple on that, we could remove them once and for all. And, of course, with the FAA, when you meet the criteria, like this Object Free Zone, it just makes it a lot easier to acquire those grants.

MR. OLMSTEAD: The City Code won’t let you cut down trees. It designates the number that you can cut down. 
MR. ELDER: Don’t tell anybody. We’re not cutting down.

MR. OLMSTEAD: The City has told us --

MR. ELDER: No, we’re not cutting down. All we’re doing is cutting off the tops of them. We’re not cutting them down. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: Rex, I don’t know. This could have a serious impact on us from what we learned in Atlanta Tuesday. 

MR. TUSSING: You got more feedback since?

MR. FOUNTAIN: Yes, we met with the Environmental Department, and they were aware of it. Van, they had some concern about this project, about revisiting it from the environmental point of view, didn’t they?

MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, that did come up, that if we did make that alignment change, that they’d have to be back involved with their consultant to --

MR. FOUNTAIN: Revisit the environmental document.

MR. CAUSEY: Well, tell us again what happens if we don’t do anything, if we build it like it’s planned?

MR. FOUNTAIN: Well, we’ve got highways all around the airport. That’s what is blowing our minds. Why are we going to --

MR. TUSSING: Well, again, this is a design criteria that is set up by the FHWA trying to --

MR. FOUNTAIN: FAA or FHWA?

MR. TUSSING: I mean FAA, yeah. I’m sorry. I say FHWA so often, it just comes out. Yeah, from the FAA, to have the runway be in the clear area, in the safe area, in the object free area. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: Is it mandatory or desirable, Don?

MR. TUSSING: It’s, I don’t think it’s absolutely mandatory, but it is desirable, and when they go to apply for other things, you know, that question will be on almost every application. 
MR. FOUNTAIN: Well, I was just looking at your other runways, and you’ve got 247 down at the other runway. We’ve had Avondale Mill Road at the other, so I mean we’ve already had it. So I don’t understand. I’m lacking in understanding. 

MR. TUSSING: This is just trying, attempting to upgrade while we are in the process of renovating.

MR. FOUNTAIN: This is a betterment? This is a --

MR. TUSSING: This is an improvement to the airport, yes. And --

MR. FOUNTAIN: So could we plead to the City that we leave it alone? Would that be our plea, that it would probably be not in our interest to move it now?

MR. TUSSING: I guess we could plead that and --

MR. FOUNTAIN: That we proceed as it was planned?

MR. TUSSING: I mean we can do that.

MR. VAUGHN: Do we know how much it’s going to cost if we change it now?

MR. TUSSING: No. I have seen no cost figures associated with this.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Well, what we’re talking about is the timing. See, this project has got time lines for right-of-way acquisition. If we shift into revisiting the environmental document, we’re going to miss our funding on the project.

MR. TUSSING: We could possibly do that.

MR. FOUNTAIN: I mean you’re talking a few hundred thousand. We’re talking about 20 million.

MR. ELDER: Well, Bob, I understand that. I know this committee has to weigh all these things in making a decision.

MR. FOUNTAIN: We want to cooperate with you.

MR. ELDER: I appreciate that, too, but I understand you’ve got to put your priorities in the right order, and that’s fine. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: Would it be, I mean would this be something insurmountable if we left it where it is, Rex, something that --

MR. ELDER: No.

MR. FOUNTAIN: -- is not insurmountable?

MR. ELDER: Right.

MR. FOUNTAIN: But if we could do it with little chaos, you’d like to see us do it.

MR. OLMSTEAD: Or time.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Or time.

MR. OLMSTEAD: Or time.

MR. FOUNTAIN: If it didn’t kill the project. So it’s not mandatory, it’s a betterment. If we can do it, you’d like to see us do it?

MR. ELDER: That’s correct.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Okay. I’ve got a better feel for it now, Don.

MR. TUSSING: Okay.

MR. FOUNTAIN: We need to try to tell our people at Georgia DOT that, too, that if this is going to create some real funding problems, we’re okay here in Middle Georgia. We can live with it. If it’s not going to be a problem, we would like for you to do it, if it’s not a big deal. Now, of course when we met with them last week it was stressed to us that it wasn’t going to be a big deal and that they were going to be able to handle it. 

MR. TUSSING: Yeah, that was my understanding.

MR. FOUNTAIN: But when we met this week with Georgia DOT and the Federal people, they’ve changed their whole deal out there.

MR. TUSSING: Well, I find it difficult to understand how much environmental change there could be because, you know, you’re taking some additional land, but you’re not getting into the wetlands. It’s not a --

MR. FOUNTAIN: That’s the issue, you don’t know, so you’ve got to visit and find it out.

MR. TUSSING: And they’re unwilling to permit until they do. 

MR. WIKLE: That’s right.

MR. FOUNTAIN: So what that does is that shifted our time line on the project and we could miss our right-of-way on the issue. Because I know most airports have highways around them. We are not peculiar in that sense. I know Atlanta has got an interstate all the way around it. 

MR. CAUSEY: Thank you, Don.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Don, thank you for that. Van, I don’t know how to phrase that with our people, or do we need to contact Georgia DOT and say this somehow?

MR. ETHERIDGE: Well, what we’d have to do for them to really study it would be revise the alignment and furnish them with a new drawing and say, look at this. Have your consultant look at this.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Well, what we’re saying, though, is if it’s a big deal, don’t do it. We can live with it without the change.

MR. ETHERIDGE: Well, it’s hard to say whether it’s a big deal or not until you realign it. There is an old farm homestead down there now --

MR. FOUNTAIN: I know that.

MR. ETHERIDGE: -- right below those guide lights that --

MR. FOUNTAIN: I believe we ought to leave well enough alone.

MR. ETHERIDGE: -- you can’t tell how much property they’ll allocate to that farmstead.

MR. FOUNTAIN: I don’t think the Feds ever thought that this project would ever go as far as it did. 

MR. ETHERIDGE: Why don’t we just let our consultant look at the alignment change and kind of talk to them about it.

MR. FOUNTAIN: And give us some advice as to where we ought to go with this.

MR. ETHERIDGE: Yeah. And see if there are any problems out there that --

MR. FOUNTAIN: We need to leave alone.

MR. ETHERIDGE: Yeah.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Because every airport I know has got highways around it, so it don’t put us in a peculiar position. I think that’s a desirable thing if you can possibly do it. Don, thank you for that. Rex, thank you. I recognize Chairman Olmstead. He came today for this issue. That’s why the Chairman came. He had an interest in that, Rex. And it was brought up, we were in Atlanta, and the Chairman was with us Tuesday, and this was brought to his attention while we were there. 

MR. ELDER: Bob, I appreciate you considering it. And after talking to you and talking to Tommy, too, I understand that other things have come up that change the overall picture of it, and I understand.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Yes, sir. Well, thank you, Rex.

MR. ELDER: Thank you.

MR. FOUNTAIN: All right. Item 8, Community Comments. Is there anybody who would like to address our body? 

MR. OETTER: May I, Mr. Chairman?

MR. FOUNTAIN: Cam Oetter.

MR. OETTER: Thank you. Cam Oetter on behalf of the Citizens Advisory Committee of the Macon Area Transportation Study. And I am here certainly to sincerely thank the committee for your flexibility and progress on the Tucker Road project, and I know that we can work that out with the residents, with the users of the trail and with the whole community and make that project really shine.

It did cause me to think of something else that I found in the news recently. I wanted to mention this to you just to show that your committee is headed in the right direction and to commend the Road Improvement Program for its flexibility. 

There is a House resolution in the General Assembly of Georgia, Number 130, 1-3-0. This passed the House last March 2001. It’s now in the Senate Transportation Committee. This resolution would create a joint study committee for road building guidelines in Georgia. Whereas, it is the State policy to provide more pedestrian friendly roadways; and, whereas, the Georgia Department of Transportation policy it’s titled a Policy on Geometric Design of Highways and Streets focuses primarily on accommodating motor vehicles, House Resolution 130 realizes that this has resulted in the decline of urban commercial areas and vehicle speeds that might be inappropriate in areas where you might have concentrations of pedestrians. So this resolution also recognizes that the Atlanta area has an extremely high ratio of pedestrian fatalities. Atlanta, in particular, is an extremely dangerous city to be out walking on the road. 

The goal of this resolution is to produce a more flexible urban standard for accommodating pedestrians with the ultimate goal of building roadways that are in harmony with community values. And I know, of course, that’s what the Road Improvement Program is all about. 

So I will mention this to you. If this joint study committee passes the Georgia Senate that it would create a committee that would include a senator from Macon, as well as Augusta and Albany, the Speaker of the House, planners from Georgia DOT, as well as GRETA (phonetically). This group, made up of 11 members, would get together and try to redesign the State transportation policy in terms of pedestrians in particular.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Who sponsored that?

MR. OETTER: That was sponsored by representatives from the Atlanta area, Mr. Chairman. Mobley, Reid, McClinton, Martin and Holmes. But I have contacted our local members, Cable, and the new gentleman, Senator Moore, from the Warner Robins area, just to show them that we’re locally interested in this as well. We don’t have huge representation on that Senate Transportation Committee. Mr. Moore is the only person I could find with local ties. 

I think something like this is important because it would bring Macon specifically into the statewide transportation planning net on something as important as flexible urban design. So I appreciate your interest in this, and just to show you that this is what’s going on in the big picture. It’s good when we can tie our work into this. Thank you.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Thank you, Cam. Is there anyone else that would like to address our committee?

AUDIENCE: I should have brought this up about Tucker Road earlier. If there is any way possible, we would like to be included in any of the negotiating meetings, especially with Richmond Hill, those type of subdivisions, just so we’re not getting second hand information?

MR. FOUNTAIN: What, as far as any community meetings?

AUDIENCE: Right.

MR. FOUNTAIN: You will be. We can make sure that you’re notified. Is there anyone else? (Hand raised). Yes, ma’am.

MS. GROCE: Hi, I’m Julie Groce, Intown President. I just would like to get an update on where we are with the sidewalk program. Are we ready to do a field -- are we ready to get this to bed? Where are we?

MR. ETHERIDGE: I have asked that our engineers schedule that field planning review, and I don’t know that we’ve got a date, have we, Joe?

MR. JOHNSON: No, sir, not yet.

MR. ETHERIDGE: But we will be doing that in the next --

MR. JOHNSON: The next week or two we’ll have a firm date. 
MR. ETHERIDGE: In the next couple of weeks.

MS. GROCE: Will we be notified of that date?

MR. JOHNSON: Yes, ma’am. Bill Causey volunteered to make sure the Intown group is notified and present at the meeting.

MR. FOUNTAIN: This will be the first project, guys?

MR. ETHERIDGE: Phase one.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Phase one?

MR. ETHERIDGE: Right.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Van, as to the sidewalks, have we had the Executive Committee sign the transfer of money to the Cherry Street, is that as I understand it, to Cherry Street?

MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, to add it to the list of sidewalk projects.

MR. FOUNTAIN: And that would just be material money for the Public Works Department to replace sidewalks, as I understand it. Do you know any different from that, Bill?

MR. CAUSEY: No, sir, I don’t.

MR. FOUNTAIN: That’s my understanding of that. Is that your understanding, Van?

MR. ETHERIDGE: Basically, yes. I don’t know that there would be something besides material or not, but the Mayor said that he wanted Public Works to do the work.

MR. VAUGHN: There wouldn’t be any labor costs.

MR. ETHERIDGE: I don’t know.

MR. FOUNTAIN: That was what was implied, that labor would be furnished by the City.

MR. VAUGHN: Right.

MR. FOUNTAIN: And that the money would be used to fund concrete or brick or whatever. And that has been signed by all members of the Executive Committee, which would be ratified, I guess, at our next meeting. Is there any other comments? Michael?

MR. RYAN: Mr. Fountain, several months ago the Citizens Advisory Committee of MATS asked me to give them a briefing on a couple of your road projects, the South Downtown Connector, the second phase, and Edgewood Avenue Extension. And I’d like to give you this written, would you pass that up to him, please, this written request to inspect your files regarding those projects. And, additionally, a request to look at any information that you have regarding the first phase of the South Downtown Connector. They’ll need some of that information for background. Thank you.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Michael, you are representing who now?

MR. RYAN: I was asked by the Citizens Advisory Committee of MATS to make a presentation to them regarding the projects that are enumerated in that document?

MR. FOUNTAIN: This is Cam Oetter’s committee?

MR. RYAN: This is Cam Oetter’s, Doug Hayes, is that not correct?

MR. OETTER: Correct.

MS. HANBERRY: Do you want me to --

MR. FOUNTAIN: You want to elaborate on it, Susan?

MS. HANBERRY: Sure. Susan Hanberry. What we did, Stella Tsai, who was chairman at the time, Doug Hayes is now the chairman of the COC, decided that it would be instructive for everybody, particularly for new members, to get some history behind all the projects that are coming up first off in the TIP for the upcoming year. So we just divided them up and asked certain, some of us on the committee were asked to do reports. Some of them we asked members of the community to do reports if they had information about it or knew people in the are or lived in the area. And one of the things we’ve been trying to do is get information from community members, as is our charge, so we can make a recommendation to the Policy Committee when the TIP comes up for approval. We’re just trying to get a head start on some of that and sort of catch up with the hist ory. Thank you.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Thank you, Susan. This is an Open Meetings request, Michael, is that what this is?

MR. RYAN: Open Records.

MR. FOUNTAIN: I mean Open Records request. I’m going to ask Van through Moreland Altobelli, as our agent for Macon and Bibb County, to furnish these to you within the guidelines of the law. Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Susan.

MS. HANBERRY: Thank you.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Is there anyone else that would like to address our group? (No response). Okay, now, under Old or New Business, is there any old or new business? Don?

MR. TUSSING: Yes. At the last TAC meeting, I was asked if the cross county connector in Jones County, if that study was, what the status of that was, and that is in the 2003 Work Program for Georgia DOT. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: Which will be July 1, Don?

MR. TUSSING: Yes.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Well, they, what we’re talking about is a route coming across the river from the north and going somewhere near the Gray Highway into 129, the northern arc. This will be the topography and the location, Don, is that --

MR. TUSSING: Yes. I’m trying to narrow it down. We have an idea where the corridor is, but somebody is going to have to do some real detailed study to look at the wetlands and other issues because you do have to cross a number of streams.

MR. FOUNTAIN: This will be a corridor study?

MR. TUSSING: Yes. Trying to come up with a, you know, probably more than one alternative that can be done. So I think we’re talking a substantial amount of money. At one time it was about, I think it was about $200,000 to do this thing. So this is quite extensive, what they are going to be doing. 

At the last meeting it was stated that Cora Cook had said that it was so environmentally difficult that it would never be done. And that was, and as I had stated, I did not remember that being stated that way by Cora, and I did check with Cora, and she does not remember making any such statement either. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: All right. Don, will they do, do we have to do anything to ignite this, or will they --

MR. TUSSING: No. It’s --

MR. FOUNTAIN: It will happen on its own?

MR. TUSSING: It’s supposed to happen on its own. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: I’ve got two or three things. Van, we talked to Russell Claxton. How is this, have we given him a notice to proceed on our Second at Mulberry yet?

MR. JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. FOUNTAIN: We have given him one?

MR. JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Do we have a time line on him, Joe?

MR. JOHNSON: I can’t remember off the top of my head, Mr. Chairman, but we do, he has --

MR. FOUNTAIN: I want you to establish a time line with him, if you would, please.

MR. JOHNSON: Yes, sir.

MR. FOUNTAIN: And let us see what kind of time line on that project we can get. And, Don, we’re going to be updating our TIP soon?

MR. TUSSING: Yes. In fact, we’re in the process of getting it started now. And if you’d like to have a meeting with Georgia DOT, we need to be setting up one. I called Theresa Walker about coming down and talking with us. So if you’d like to have that set up very soon.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Right. We’d like to talk. We’ve got some new projects, I think, that we’d like to talk to her about, some that we see a need for. And we think that they need to be considered as part of the Macon-Bibb TIP.

MR. TUSSING: Okay.

MR. FOUNTAIN: And we’d like to do that. And I think we need to kind of --

MR. WIKLE: (Inaudible).

MR. FOUNTAIN: And, Bill, I noticed today that we’ve signed the authorization on our street name signs, the new signs. We’re going to be putting new signs all over our community, bigger signs that you can see. 

MR. WIKLE: We put up a test sign down at Third and Riverside if you’d like to see what it looks like.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Third and Riverside is a test sign?

MR. WIKLE: Yes. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: They are twice as big. 

MR. WIKLE: They are exactly as they will be on this contract. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: We’ve already awarded this contract?

MR. WIKLE: No.

MR. ETHERIDGE: No. It’s still under design.

MR. FOUNTAIN: No, I meant the consulting 
contract --

MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: -- has been awarded?

MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes.

MR. FOUNTAIN: It’s being designed?

MR. WIKLE: We got it today, and I think you all got a copy of it. So we’re getting ready to let it.

MR. FOUNTAIN: All right. The other issue is this make ready cost on our fiber, Bill. Are we still in limbo on that?

MR. WIKLE: I’ve talked back with the people in Thomaston since we had that conversation.

MR. FOUNTAIN: I spoke to Van about our conversation, and I think to the District is what we want to tell the District is this make ready cost that we talked to Tom Turner and Tom was okay with making it part of the project and amending that project to make this make ready cost part of the fiber project. We have not heard back from Tom. We’ve called him on a couple of occasions. He has been evidently during this session really busy, but Van and I met with him, and that’s what I got out of our meeting, that he was okay with that and it made sense to him to make that a part of the project itself. 

MR. ROUNTREE: Which project was that?

MR. FOUNTAIN: This is the, Bill, what’s the title of that project specifically?

MR. ETHERIDGE: Downtown and outlying --

MR. WIKLE: Outlying signalization phase two and three.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Bibb County, Macon, Georgia. It’s already awarded. We just haven’t given a notice to proceed on that project, is that right, Bill?

MR. WIKLE: That’s right. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: And they’re holding up the notice to proceed based on this make ready cost. So if y’all could follow up with Mr. Turner’s office, maybe y’all will have a, you know, some interoffice communication that we don’t have access to.

MR. ROUNTREE: Okay.

MR. FOUNTAIN: But it is our belief that there was a commitment from the State to fund that $400,000 for Macon and Bibb County.

MR. ROUNTREE: I’ll check with Tom Turner.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Please do that. And that’s our understanding, and we went forward with the project with that belief. And he was going to follow back up with us on that.

MR. WIKLE: Bill, if you need any more information on the project description, just give me a call.

MR. ROUNTREE: What’s your number?

MR. WIKLE: 464 -- Excuse me. Area Code 478-464-5700. 

MR. ROUNTREE: Okay.

MR. FOUNTAIN: And we’re advertising Ingleside, aren’t we, Van?

MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes.

MR. FOUNTAIN: It’s being advertised as we speak. And Forsyth Street, where are we at with Forsyth and Cotton, Van?

MR. ETHERIDGE: We still haven’t worked out the street lighting design yet. We’re working on that. And as soon as we get that, we’ll be in a position to advertise it.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Where do you see a time line with that now?

MR. ETHERIDGE: I think we’re at least two or three more weeks away.

MR. FOUNTAIN: You’re working this out with Gene Simons, is that right?

MR. ETHERIDGE: And Georgia Power.

MR. FOUNTAIN: And Georgia Power. 

MR. ETHERIDGE: And their consultant.

MR. FOUNTAIN: All right. Bill Wikle has got some business he wants to talk about.

MR. WIKLE: Well, you had asked me after our last meeting to try and gather some information on roundabouts.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Road arounds, round --

MR. WIKLE: Whatever. And I tracked down a couple that, a couple of roundabouts that DOT constructed in Carroll County in the last few years.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Right.

MR. WIKLE: And I thought they were in the Third District, but they’re not. I talked with the District Traffic Engineer for whatever that district is, and --

MR. ROUNTREE: Six.

MR. WIKLE: Six?

MR. ROUNTREE: Yes.

MR. WIKLE: Basically, they are an acceptable alternative to signalization, which I suppose we had read in other sources. Everybody seems to think that they are acceptable for low to moderate traffic volumes. I think there is concern about if you have multiple lane approaches, then there are problems with that lane and the weaving that occurs.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Sort of like the speed skaters. Have you ever watched them cross in front of one another?

MR. WIKLE: Yeah. The centrifugal force. They do improve safety. The public acceptance is very good. They need more right-of-way. I made a list, there were some local candidates that we discussed, and the ones on Forest Hill, I think Dr. Lindsay had proposed, it was Old Lundy and Lokchappee. There may be grade problems with trying to do a roundabout there. 

MR. TUSSING: Yes, you would have to move significant dirt there.

MR. WIKLE: The Forest Hill at Ridge, there’s a right-of-way problem with it. We will tear up --

MR. TUSSING: I looked at that one, and it would take at least five houses to do a two-lane roundabout. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: Well, I think what we’re hearing is they are good for low travel volume and low volume roads. And the volumes on your arterial system, it was not a good application for your arterial system. And that’s what we’re getting from the design people.

MR. TUSSING: Well, I thought Bill said low to moderate.

MR. CAUSEY: He did.

MR. WIKLE: Low to moderate.

MR. TUSSING: What volumes would you say would be moderate?

MR. WIKLE: I would say moderate is threshold traffic signal volumes, five, six, eight thousand a day, maybe ten. But when you get into 20,000 ADTs, they have problems. Ayers and Tucker was proposed. That may have grade problems. Rivoli and Bass, with the exception of the one house, that might be the closest thing to a candidate intersection we’ve got. However, we have been trying our best to do an early implentation signal installation there. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: Bass at Rivoli?

MR. WIKLE: Bass at Rivoli is what I said.

MR. FOUNTAIN: I thought that Bass projection was getting on up into some heavy traffic volumes.

MR. WIKLE: Well, that’s one of the things you have to weigh when you decide these things. I think because of that it’s probably not a good candidate either. So I don’t come with a proposal.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Hopefully these roundabouts are going to be made a part of the traffic calming in residential areas. I mean they’re going to be part of it and we’re going to bring it, is it going to be an option, Bill, people will vote on?

MR. WIKLE: Absolutely.

MR. FOUNTAIN: But what we’re looking at is on the arterial system, the system that carries commerce for this community. You know, we would have to look hard at putting one where it would reduce volumes on the arterial system, those arteries that carry commerce, heavy commerce. But I definitely see an application for safety as an engineer in a residential area. You knkow, that’s where the traffic calming is. Bill, thank you for that.

All right. Is there any other old or new business? (No response). Let’s see, our next meeting is April --

MR. ETHERIDGE: April 4th.

MR. FOUNTAIN: April 4th, 2002. The Citizens Oversight, April 18th. And the Executive Committee to be announced.

MR. TUSSING: Before we get off the roundabouts completely, I think, you know, roundabouts are more than just for residential streets. You know, I think, you know, I know we here don’t have much experience with them, and I think we need to try to continue to look further. Vernon and I have also discussed that. He’s saying, you know, in some of the places he’s traveled, that he’s seen roundabouts with very heavy traffic, very heavy truck traffic, and they seem to work. Now, the only ones I’ve really experienced where you have a lot of traffic is over at Hilton Head, and that can carry quite a bit of traffic through there. I would think it would be much more than the 10,000 vehicles per day. 

MR. FOUNTAIN: I guess all of us who have been in Europe have been in them. You know, they scare me to death.

MR. WIKLE: Those were the DOT person’s opinion that I discussed this with --

MR. FOUNTAIN: We looked, in fact, when we were with Nimrod Long yesterday, the consultant out of Houston, Texas, developed the guidelines for Federal Highway for roundabouts, and we, in fact, Sherrie was getting his Web site today, but we were going down and talk to this guy and really get a firsthand on the development of these, you know, roundabouts. 

MR. OETTER: Mr. Fountain, excuse me. Mr. Fountain, if I may, that new business brought about my thought on that as well. Highway A30 in the People’s Republic of England --

MR. FOUNTAIN: I’m sorry, I didn’t understand what you said.

MR. OETTER: Highway A, as in apple.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Yes.

MR. OETTER: 30, 3-0.

MR. FOUNTAIN: Right.

MR. OETTER: It is something, in my experience, that they use over there in England to slow traffic approaching a community in particular. This is a highway. It’s a two-lane blacktop highway. The roundabouts were often found at the first intersection coming into town to give people the reception that they’re back in the real world and they need to slow it down. This was a highway with truck traffic in my experience, and I will say that I hope the committee will study this a little bit more, particularly when you have the opportunity, as Mr. Wikle said, of a good candidate like Bass at Rivoli.

MR. FOUNTAIN: We’ll look at it from a professional point of view. 

MR. OETTER: Thank you.

MR. FOUNTAIN: From a traffic point of view.

MR. OETTER: Absolutely. But be very flexible and consider all your alternatives.

MR. FOUNTAIN: We will need to do commerce where we compete with other communities to do commerce where time is money. Is there any other business to come before this committee? (No response). If not, we are adjourned. 
(MEETING ADJOURNED)

CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

STATE OF GEORGIA

COUNTY OF BIBB.

I hereby certify that the within and foregoing record is a true, complete and correct transcript of the proceeding taken by me on the 7th day of March, 2002.

This 19th day of March, 2002. 

Certificate No. B-1238